Awaiting Feedback Re-work on Overtalk Plugin (1 Viewer)

What to do with the Overtalk Plugin?

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ItsNotCalassic

ItsNotCalassic

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Hello everyone.

Simply put, the overtalk plugin created by berkie is a fantastic plugin however it does have some issues that I've noticed in the past couple of weeks. For those who are unaware of how this plugin works, whenever the plugin is active, everyone on the server is unable to speak while the warden is speaking (admins are currently exempt for obvious reasons). I believe this plugin can be extremely useful for the chaotic rounds where everyone on the server is nonstop overtalking the warden and allows for rounds to transition and progress easily. However, though being able to mute everyone on the server is a fantastic addition, it does leave some issues that I've noticed and that is the inability of Blues to easily communicate with the warden during the plugin. Blues are now unable to effectively communicate with the warden to give callouts, to give warnings, to ask the warden questions, etc etc. They are now restricted to either typing the question/callout/etc in chat and pray the warden reads the chat, which they hardly do, or wait for the warden to stop talking so they can go ahead with the question.

I'm aware that blues are often those that overtalk the warden just as much as reds. However, there are rules set in place that are initially designed to prevent people from overtalking to begin with. Many forget the "all blues/reds off mic 30 second order" exists. If they prevent the round from progressing and it is unbearable, tk is an option though I believe it should be a last resort on that issue.

This might seem like such a non-issue to those who play on red, but as a blue player, I find it important to communicate well with the warden. This plugin essentially removes that ability to communicate with the warden effectively.

Berke has stated he would edit the plugin if the suggestion does go through, however, I do not want to initially create a poll so I could at least garner some conversation about the topic at hand and fabricate some solutions or if we should just deal with the issue.

I'd love to hear everyone's feedback on this issue!
 
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ItsNotCalassic said:
Blues are now unable to effectively communicate with the warden to give callouts, to give warnings, to ask the warden questions, etc etc.
Click to expand...
This may seem like something that wouldn't be a big problem, but this scenario happened today.



A medic was killed for having uber because the warden assumed they healed after giving the order. Granted he probably did, but there was no way for anyone to confirm, and chances were that someone would have been freekilled.
Typically you would go on mic and say "hey you can't kill a medic just because they have uber, you have no idea when they got uber, maybe they healed a boston basher scout in cells" or something along those lines.
But I couldn't. Due do someone overtalking the warden for a grand total of like 3 seconds, the warden left overtalk plugin on and I was completely unable to alert the warden that he could not kill the medic unless he saw him actually heal.
This scenario may not seem all that extreme. It is just one freekill after all and most of the time nothing comes from it. But another example I can imagine is if a warden did meatgrinder and yapped until enabling FF without reading chat. There would be an entire round fried completely partly due to the overtalk plugin.




Not everone responds/reads the chat, and an audio cue would do wonders for those people who don't read chat. So why should we take away that ability just so wardens can have complete priority of the voice chat in the event people overtalk.
(Also a little addition, but the chances of a scene being so chaotic you turn the plugin on because of the blu team seems to happen far less frequently then the red team talking.

I have no idea if what I said made much sense, I am very sleepy right now and just wanted to get this out there as I feel that changing the plugin would allow a smoother experience
 
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I agree with this because when the Overtalk is on blues are not able to help and questions about rebels,orders,etc are not able to be asked leading to free kills,fail rounds,etc
 
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Mehgend said:
This may seem like something that wouldn't be a big problem, but this scenario happened today.
Click to expand...
Realizing that I yapped so hard here

Basically what happened was warden said someone was kos for a bad reason -> I couldn’t warn them that you can’t kos someone unless you say them disobey and order / rebel status -> a red is freekilled.

I’m not sure what we should do to fix it just yet, but I am open to hear what people decide might work.
 
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Overtalk overall is a net positive in many regards, and I am glad to see you acknowledge that.
Improvements can always be made, and the only addition I would potentially like to see is the ability to disable overtalk on reds, blus, or both.
As it currently stands, many of the above mentioned issues would be remedied if warden could toggle one team, without toggling the other.
In all earnest though, I am entirely fine with the plugin as it is.
 
PistolPoppinSince02 said:
Overtalk overall is a net positive in many regards, and I am glad to see you acknowledge that.
Improvements can always be made, and the only addition I would potentially like to see is the ability to disable overtalk on reds, blus, or both.
As it currently stands, many of the above mentioned issues would be remedied if warden could toggle one team, without toggling the other.
In all earnest though, I am entirely fine with the plugin as it is.
Click to expand...
Pretty much summarises my thoughts also. Sometimes you need to mute blus/reds independantly, because of micpsam etc etc. Being able to toggle based on teams could clutter up the warden menu more than it already is. Which is my only concern.
 
If your problem with the “mute everyone when someone talks” plug-in is the fact that it mutes everyone, why not just suggest to remove it.
If giving it a cool down doesn’t work, if it’s frustrating to play with why look for a “solution” that at best will skimp the idea of the plug-in entirely.
 
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It's extremely hard to look for "perfect" solutions. Let me read your full post and try to understand all your points so i can make sure your original opinion is understood and heard before i tell you my side.

ItsNotCalassic said:
blues are now unable to effectively communicate with the warden to give callouts, to give warnings, to ask the warden questions, etc etc. They are now restricted to either typing the question/callout/etc in chat and pray the warden reads the chat, which they hardly do, or wait for the warden to stop talking so they can go ahead with the question.
Click to expand...
This is a pretty tough problem to tackle because you are entirely valid in your problems with the plugin and its completely understandable on why this might be frustrating as a guard. However on the opposite head im sure theres more examples of guards just spouting nonsense on the mic while the warden is trying to get orders out without being overtalked so it's generally going to always be a double-edged sword.

ItsNotCalassic said:
. However, there are rules set in place that are initially designed to prevent people from overtalking to begin with. Many forget the "all blues/reds off mic 30 second order" exists.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately we just don't have the manpower to have admins on 24/7 so we cannot always protect the server from overtalking which is why i think this plugin helps more than it usually hinders.

ItsNotCalassic said:
Many forget the "all blues/reds off mic 30 second order" exists. If they prevent the round from progressing and it is unbearable, tk is an option though I believe it should be a last resort on that issue.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately many people misconstrue this rule as "I can kill blues if they inconvience me in any way." and we generally want to look for ways to avoid situations like this where players are given powers to be their own Judge, Jury and Executioner because it generally becomes a problem.

This report is a good example of this if you want to take a look: https://www.panda-community.com/threads/teamkill.31218/#post-146476

ItsNotCalassic said:
I find it important to communicate well with the warden. This plugin essentially removes that ability to communicate with the warden effectively.
Click to expand...
Valid issue completely.

However let's ask ourselves an important question here on whats a bigger problem here.

Overtalking the Warden
Or
Communicating with Warden or issuing callouts as a blue.

Personally i think overtalking is a much bigger issue and taking away the wardens power to mute their own blue team in order to get orders out seems problematic because i believe reds getting freekilled over not hearing wardens orders have just as much frustration as you do with not being able to talk sometimes as blue.

If you are simply asking for an edit to the plugin where you can toggle which team you want to activate the overtalk plugin then im supportive of a potential change. but i am not supportive of not being able to toggle it on blue team entirely.
 
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I was thinking if there would be a way so that when the warden talks everyones voice volume will decrease to a bearable volume so that the warden can give orders, and also pay attention to what the blues could say.

and i am aware there are some issues with this:
-Reds could still talk over the guards that attempt to give callouts
-Warden would focus too much on the reds and his own orders.

This is one of the things i tought of.
 
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Bananawastaken said:
If your problem with the “mute everyone when someone talks” plug-in is the fact that it mutes everyone, why not just suggest to remove it.
If giving it a cool down doesn’t work, if it’s frustrating to play with why look for a “solution” that at best will skimp the idea of the plug-in entirely.
Click to expand...
To remove the plug-in entirely would be a mistake truthfully. The plug-in itself works super well and I don’t believe we should remove it entirely. I do believe we added this plugin without much thought of what could go on in a round and only added it to prevent overtalking. Even if the overtalk plugin is turned into a toggle of 30 seconds, that’s still 30 seconds I have to pray for the warden to be quiet or for the warden to read chat.

The plugin works well, but doesn’t factor that not every player on blue is out to minge. I’m a blue player, I like to help warden. I simply cannot help the warden if i’m muted while he talks about his life and refuses to read the chat.

If anything, if the plugin didn’t work on blues it would be even better or perhaps what PFD1 suggested, and it lowers the mic volume of blues during the plugin. I think this would be a nice middle ground since a quiet mic can’t overtalk the warden as much to ruin the round.
 
Best idea: Overtalk plugin mutes all reds when warden talks, but blue team/guard voices would be lowered not silenced.
 
ItsNotCalassic said:
Hello everyone.

Simply put, the overtalk plugin created by berkie is a fantastic plugin however it does have some issues that I've noticed in the past couple of weeks. For those who are unaware of how this plugin works, whenever the plugin is active, everyone on the server is unable to speak while the warden is speaking (admins are currently exempt for obvious reasons). I believe this plugin can be extremely useful for the chaotic rounds where everyone on the server is nonstop overtalking the warden and allows for rounds to transition and progress easily. However, though being able to mute everyone on the server is a fantastic addition, it does leave some issues that I've noticed and that is the inability of Blues to easily communicate with the warden during the plugin. Blues are now unable to effectively communicate with the warden to give callouts, to give warnings, to ask the warden questions, etc etc. They are now restricted to either typing the question/callout/etc in chat and pray the warden reads the chat, which they hardly do, or wait for the warden to stop talking so they can go ahead with the question.

I'm aware that blues are often those that overtalk the warden just as much as reds. However, there are rules set in place that are initially designed to prevent people from overtalking to begin with. Many forget the "all blues/reds off mic 30 second order" exists. If they prevent the round from progressing and it is unbearable, tk is an option though I believe it should be a last resort on that issue.

This might seem like such a non-issue to those who play on red, but as a blue player, I find it important to communicate well with the warden. This plugin essentially removes that ability to communicate with the warden effectively.

Berke has stated he would edit the plugin if the suggestion does go through, however, I do not want to initially create a poll so I could at least garner some conversation about the topic at hand and fabricate some solutions or if we should just deal with the issue.

I'd love to hear everyone's feedback on this issue!
Click to expand...
Honestly, what would be the changes? I need to get a "callout" on that. ;)
 
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What Madact said, having a red/blu toggle would be nice.
But the warden menu would become full.
I have a solution by making a bind for all that, but we cant expect everyone to make those.
I think we are better of leaving it as is.
 
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Upon further consideration. I'll be voting in favour of keeping it as is. The plugin already works wonders in terms of preventing overtalk. So removing it is out of the question imo. However. Adding toggles for both teams is pretty redundant, it's clutter for the warden menu to add toggles for both. And blus still can give call outs. It's literally a case of a warden knowing as and when to have overtalk enabled. Not being able to manage that as a warden is just a skill issue 🥱. Keep it as is. It's a good plugin.
 
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Let them overtalk, then mute.

If all of this gets sorted with the command now, everyone will just be talking nonstop expecting warden to mute them when he wants to say anything.
 
All the solutions presented don't fix the problem imo.

1. Reds weren't ever really a problem when it came to overtalking (save for rebellers) since you can kill them
2. Adding a team specific mute is barely a fix, you're still going to have wardens who mute both teams especially if the current "mute all" option remains
3&4. I think we all know the drawbacks to the current and old standards.

What if instead of the warden muting people, people could personally chose to mute everyone but the warden? I believe blw has a similar command that does that, not sure how feasible it is to code.
 
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Toggling between teams will really only clutter the menus tbh. I like panda JB because it’s super clean and there’s so little amount of clutter going on, and I just don’t see a need to have two options that do the same thing independently that they already did together.

Yes muting one team would negate SOME instances of the problem that I brought up earlier in the thread, but it would be even more annoying to be muted imo in that scenario.
Taking only some of the players ability to talk would just make me feel off and maybe even excluded at some specific times.

The plug-in is a great idea, but personally I think more often than not feels like it is fixing a specific problem with decently consistent results, but is also creating several more problems that make the game less fun and sometimes more problematic in the process.
 
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